Somebody set up us the bomb

Jughead's Time Police

Lostpedia: Jughead / Jughead Transcript

Philipines - 2005

• Dez and Penny have a wee bairn...

Penny's Boat - 2009

• ...named Charlie. Named after Charlie Pace or Charles Widmore?
• Desmond:"I have to do this, Penny" - Moral imperative or Course Correction/Destiny?

Island - 1954

• Two more anono-Losties bite the dust. If I was really ambitious I would try to do the math and see how many spear-carriers are left.
• The Claymore mines are an anachronism - they weren't in use in 1954.
• Since Miles can read the side that says "Front Toward Enemy" he's on the lethal side. Miles would be dead, jumping or not.
• What is up with the FPS -gunsight-point of view? Is there some reason for it?
• "You just couldn't stay away, could you?" - She hasn't met Faraday before, she thinks the Losties are with the Army.

England 2009

• Desmond: "I know how insane it sounds" - Hasn't Penny been brought up to speed on how insane EVERYTHING is?
• Desmond DOES NOT promise to not go back to the Island.

Island - 1954

---Faraday Miles Charlotte

• Lostpedia estimates that there are at most 3 redshirts left, based on Ellie's statement that there were 20 Losties at the start of the beach arrow attack.
• Why does Ellie think that 20 unarmed people without equipment or uniforms, who can't even light a fire, were with the Army?
• Ellie's going to need some dental work, grinding her molars like that.
• Ellie: "Once we leave here, I will be out of control of what happens to you. But if you cooperate now, things will go much easier for you." - This is the first of the references to the Other's chain of command/leadership this episode.

---Locke Sawyer Juliet

• Is there something going on with Time? No, I mean something else.
• The 3 in uniform are Mattingly,Jones and Cunningham. Mattingly is dead.
• Locke's military hobbies come in handy.
• The uniforms are Others. We know this because they speak Latin. Wait, What?

---Faraday Miles Charlotte

• Faraday doesn't even blink at Miles' ghost-whispering. He even wants to know if the dead know what year it is. He must know about Miles' ability.
• Richard has big forearms. He must work out.

Oxford - 2009

• Now that he's off the Island, Desmond is free to dress like an Italian gigolo, or possibly Dr. Who.

• The Oxford clerk is the same as the Oceanic airlines clerk who allowed Hurley on flight 815.

  

  Is she the same woman or just the same actress?

  Episode 5x03 Jughead - Oxford Woman from Exodus??

• Why can't Desmond remember the year he visited Faraday?
• I think it's a little too convenient that Faraday's lab is still there 3+ years later, complete with talkative janitor to fill in the blanks. If Oxford is so ashamed of Faraday or has been bought off by Widmore why wouldn't they take the logical step of cleaning out the lab? I hope this is somebody leaving bread crumbs and not the writers being lazy.

Island - 1954

---Locke Sawyer Juliet

• Juliet: "Others 101. Gotta learn Latin--language of the enlightened."

  Is Juliet referring to the Age of Enlightenment?

  "The intellectual and philosophical developments of that age (and their impact in moral, social, and political reform) aspired toward more freedom for common people based on self-governance, natural rights, natural law, central emphasis on liberty, individual rights, reason, common sense, and the principles of deism. These principles were a revolutionary departure from theocracy, autocracy, oligarchy, aristocracy, and the divine right of kings. The Enlightenment marks a principled departure from the Middle Ages of religious authority, absolute state power, guild-based economic systems, and censorship of ideas toward an era of rational discourse and personal judgment, republicanism, liberalism, naturalism, scientific authority, and modernity."

  Or to one who is enlightened?

  "Enlightenment broadly means wisdom or understanding enabling clarity of perception. However, the English word covers two concepts which can be quite distinct: religious or spiritual enlightenment and secular or intellectual enlightenment. This can cause confusion, since those who claim intellectual enlightenment often reject spiritual concepts altogether. In religious use, enlightenment is most closely associated with South and East Asian religious experience, being used to translate words such as (in Buddhism) bodhi or satori, or (in Hinduism) moksha. The concept does also have parallels in the Abrahamic religions (in the Kabbalah tradition in Judaism, in Christian mysticism or Gnosticism, and in the Sufi tradition of Islam)."

• Locke doesn't know Latin, kinda strange for the leader of the others.
• Locke: "I suggest you talk to us. Once we get back to the creek and meet up with the rest of our people, there's gonna be a lot of anger directed at you for attacking them. " - Mirrors what Ellie said to Faraday's group.
• Once again Locke can't kill in cold blood. Plus, Widmore can't die in 1954 because Widmore didn't die in 1954.
• Why not take Locke, Sawyer, and Juliet to the camp? It's not like the 3 of them pose a major threat. They could come to some arrangement.

Teresa's House - 2009

• Faraday's old lab assistant has Minkowski's syndrome.
• Widmore funded Faraday. How many of Faraday's's ideas come from Widmore?
• Teresa's sister tells a sad story, but we don't know if it's true, or the full story.
• Teresa's last name might be a shout out to the English Philosopher Herbert Spencer
• In the bookcase behind Teresa is a "Lost Book":

  The Lost Book is a common way to refer to the Inventio Fortunata, a book allegedly written by a monk from Oxfordand later recovered by a man named Jacobus Cnoyen, who popularized it before losing it again. This book that didn't want to stay found described the North Pole as a magnetic island surrounded by a violent maelstrom, and helpfully described this magnetic island as being made from "Rupes Nigra", or in Lost lingo - Black Rock. And yeah, I'm going on the assumption that absolutely none of this is random.

  Dropping H Bombs

  Since the cover actually says "Lost Books, it could be This.

Island - 1954

---Faraday Miles Charlotte

• The bomb gets it's own section, because it's problematic.
• The blonde Other is named Ellie.

  Eloise Hawking is the old woman/Ben Ally/Time-cop. Faraday named his mentally time-travelling rat "Eloise". Widmore says that Faraday's mother is in L.A., Ms. Hawking is in L.A.. Q.E.D.: Ms. Hawking is Ellie is Faraday's mother. Could Widmore be his father? And who is Penny's mother?

• Richard: "We gave them the opportunity to leave the island peacefully. They weren't willing to do that, so I was forced to kill 'em. All of 'em."
• Faraday: "Forced?"
• Richard: "Yeah."
• Faraday: "By whom? "
• Richard: "You answer to someone, don't you? You follow a chain of command, right?"
• Faraday: "Yeah."
• Richard: "Yeah, well, so do I."

In the enhanced rerun of "Jughead" , the subtitles call Richard "an advisor to the leader of the Others".

So, in 1954, who is the leader of the Others? Why aren't they with Richard dealing with the Army/Bomb problem?

• "Jones" refers to Cunningham, who's uniform also said "Cunningham". Are some of the Others defectors from the Army?

  Oh yea, Cunningham can't be a defector from the Army, he knows Latin.

  This is either a production screw-up or an Other decided to take Cunningham's name.

• "Jones" lies to Richard, and he is an arrogant dickwad.

---Locke Sawyer Juliet

• Cutting to Locke looking over the camp right after "Jones" dismisses him was classic.
• Juliet: "Richard's always been here. " - how long is always?
• Richard wasn't telling Locke how to save the Losties, he was telling him how to save the Island, there's a crucial difference.
• Locke doesn't care that Faraday is apparently being marched off into the jungle to be executed. Why? Because Locke is not the hero.

---Faraday Miles Charlotte

• I think Faraday has realized that Ellie is his mother.
• After a long day of flaming death and atomic weapons, Faraday can get a little sarcastic.

Widmore's Office - 2009

• The painting behind Widmore's receptionist looks like a Jackson Pollack. "Jughead" originally aired on Pollack's birthday.
• One of the paintings in Widmore's office has a polar bear, "namaste", and an upside down buddha.

  Paintings (Widmore)

• Widmore refers to Desmond as a "colleague". From him this is high praise indeed.
• Desmond told Widmore the deal and he's sticking to it. He's not going to answer any questions.
• Widmore knowing the address for Faraday's mother brings up a whole host of issues.
• Why does Widmore think that Desmond is delivering a message?

Island - 1954

• Locke knows the magic word, but he's lying. Jacob didn't send him, >2005-Richard did.

Penny's Boat

• Oh Desmond, you are so screwed.

Island - 1954

• I was expecting the compass to have some significance to 1954-Richard, but it doesn't mean anything to him. Instead, Locke and Richard are completing a time loop.
• Richard never actually says or indicates that he is unfamiliar or disbelieving in Time Travel - he might just be wary of Locke.
• Richard never told Locke that Locke was the Other's leader, at least that we've seen. Ben told Locke he was the leader.
• Richard: "Look, I... certainly don't want to contradict myself, but... we have a very specific process for selecting our leadership, and it starts at a very, very young age."

  Richard might be referring to the testing of children to see if they are reincarnations or experiencing transfered memories from time-travelling future selves.

  Note that he says "leadership", not "leader".

• Time travel screws with causality something fierce, but on the first level the reason Richard showed up at Locke's birth, and the Others regarded Locke as "special" is because Locke disappeared into thin air after telling Richard to attend his birth. To a large degree, Locke is special because Locke said he was special.

  Considering the higher level, doesn't it seem as if the time skips are planned, especially in light of "The Little Prince"? If so, then who or whatever is controlling the time skips caused Locke to be considered "special" by the Others

Island - Unknown Date

• Poor Miles, he needs a hug.

---

Theories / Ruminations / Implications / Half-Baked Predictions

• How did Richard know when to go help Locke at the beechcraft? Locke told him in 1954 where he would be after Ethan shot him, but Richard would have to know the exact date to be able to help Locke. Locke never knew the date. Did Richard camp out at the Beechcraft for years?
• 3 Time Loops:
  • Richard and Locke:
    • Richard is visited by time-travelling Locke in 1954, gets compass.
    • Richard keeps an eye on young Locke, sees drawing of smoke monster.
    • Richard saves wounded Locke, gives Locke compass, tells Locke to give him the compass the next time they meet.
  • Ellie/Eloise Hawking and Faraday:
    • Ellie/Eloise meets time-travelling Faraday in 1954, He tells her that his group are from the future and then disappears in front of her.
    • Presumably Eloise studies Time, passes on her interest to her son.
    • Widmore finances Faraday's research, possibly because he saw him in 1954.
    • Faraday invents mental time-travel, using another time-loop with Desmond to send his past self the correct settings.
    • Widmore sends Faraday to the Island.
  • Widmore and Faraday/Miles/Charlotte:
    • Widmore sees the time-travelling freighter specialists in 1954. They disappear from captivity, confirming that they are time-travellers.
    • Widmore sends them to the Island.
  Luhks has very good recap on this subject.
• Locke's whole mission to return the O6 could be part of a loop. Richard tells Locke he has to get his friends back, Locke tells Richard that Richard told Locke to GHFB, rinse and repeat. One possible problem with this is Richard telling Locke that he'll have to die - Locke didn't talk about this in 1954. But if Richard didn't gain information about Locke's mission from a source other than Locke then the whole idea came out of nowhere.
• Desmond is going back to the Island. If all the foreshadowing about "never going back" isn't enough, the fact that the rules don't apply to Desmond should make him essential to any attempt to save the world, or whatever.
• I don't think they buried Jughead under the Swan or the Orchid. If it was under the Swan then it's gone-and it's too obvious. With the FDW already under the Orchid who would be stupid enough to put an atomic weapon near it? My bet is that the bomb is under the Arrow. If the bomb is under the Swan then that would suggest that the Losties have to stop Locke from not pushing the button.
• Not My Observation: The Others are like hermit crabs - they inhabit the structures (and clothes) of whoever they kill. This ties in with their habit of disguising themselves - as survivors, balloon pilots, Dharma members, seabilly pirates, etc. But we still know almost nothing about their true nature. And it still drives me nuts that no one has bothered to ask Juliet any direct questions about who the Others are, or Daniel about his lengthy research on Dharma. I can accept lots of reasons for them not to give extensive answers, but the pervasive incuriosity is nagging. If this is a character-driven drama, then having stupid characters is a liability.
• Widmore was an Other. This raises the possibility that we're looking at an Other civil war.
• We never see any of the 1954 Others learning any of the Losties' names except Locke's.
• Widmore could start showing up in Locke's past.

• "Not only is Richard's age a constant, his name is always the same too. Years, decades, even centuries pass, but Richard is always Richard. This is the Ying to the multiple-names Yang (Dr. Candle for example) we've seen throughout lost."

  Things I Noticed - "Jughead" by Vozzek69
• Richard and the Others have known about Locke time-travelling since 1954. Why didn't Ethan recognize Locke at the beechcraft? Didn't he ever hear the story about John Locke, the bald old guy who, back in 1954, said that Jacob had sent him, that he was the leader of the Others, and predicted his own birth, before disappearing into thin air? Of course Ethan had to shoot Locke, to prevent him from reaching and dying in the beechcraft, and so he would be waiting for Richard to tell him to return the O6.
• Richard: "The only way to save the Island, John, is to get your people back here--the ones who left." - not save the world, or save your friends - save the Island. There's no guarantee that this would be a good thing for the Losties.
• Where (or when) did Desmond bollocks up the timeline? Was it when he saved Charlie, Claire, and Aaron from being hit by lightning? This is the theory that supposes Desmond was made "unique" by destruction of the Swan. It also assumes that Claire and Aaron are "supposed" to be dead. Is this why Claire is in Jacob's cabin?

  Or is Desmond's timeline altering act his turning of the failsafe key?

• Missing Time?

  This season there have been 2 instances where it goes from night to day with suspiciously rapidity.

  Hurley and Sayid in Ep #1 & #2 -"Because You Left" & "The Lie":

  1. Los Angeles, Jan 1, 2008 - Sunrise 6:58am, Sunset 4:54pm
  2. Start-Sayid shoots a man watching the Santa Rosa asylum at 8:15pm
  3. Sayid takes Hurley from the asylum - 30 minutes
  4. Sayid and Hurley get food from drive-in, arrive at safe house - 1 hour+
  5. Fight at safe house, Hurley gets Sayid into car - 30 minutes
  6. End - Hurley is driving Sayid in full daylight and gets pulled over by Ana Lucia
  7. I can stretch the times but I can't get them past before midnight. So what were Hurley and Sayid doing for 6+ hours?

  ---

  Juliet, Sawyer, and Locke in Ep #3 - "Jughead":

  1. The Losties overpower 3 Others in the middle of the night.
  2. The next we see them it's bright daylight and the Losties seem to have not done anything except get the Others on their knees.
• Latin

  The Other's speak Latin. When the hell did this start? Because we've had dozens of scenes where Others talk privately among themselves, and no Latin. The only way this works is if the Others have learned Latin just to use in situations where they might be overheard.

  It's the language of the enlightened. It's also the language of the Romans, who practiced slavery and enjoyed watching people and animals fight to death.

• You Dropped a Bomb on Me

  The 500lb gorilla in this episode, in more ways than one, is Jughead the bomb.

  • In 1954, one can hardly imagine something that the U.S. Government values more than one of it's atomic weapons.
  • Being a high-value asset, how the hell did the Army decide to test Jughead on an Island that is near impossible to find and land on? How did they even know about the Island in the first place?
  • Atomic tests aren't done by 18 people-try hundreds, with lots and lots of ships, all visiting Craphole Island.
  • If the Army lost an atomic bomb to an unknown hostile party in the middle of the Cold War I think I can safetly assume that they would freak the fuck out. Questions would be asked, like "where is the goddamn Island?" and "who decided on this island?". The Army would have an intense and ongoing interest in finding the Island again.
  • Theories:
    1. The writers have screwed up. I'm still waiting to learn how the Dharma Initiative found the Island and moved hundreds of people and tons of stuff onto it, and how the Island became hidden afterwards, without a FDW. And if Widmore was an Other, and he was behind Dharma, why didn't they do better in fighting them?
    2. Somebody wanted the bomb-The Island, Jacob, Rocket J. Squirrel: somebody with Juice - enough to arrange for a small group of Army chumps to take Jughead to Island secretly. The Others weren't defending the Island from invaders, they were eliminating the delivery boys.
• Locke - Hero or Psychopath?

  I take the contrarian view of John Locke - he is not a hero. Sympathetic, interesting, finely-acted, but not the "good guy" he so desperately wants to be. Ever since he regained the use of his legs and "looked into the eye of this island" (the smoke monster, an amorphous people-shredder, to be exact) Locke has valued the Island over people. He has lied, assaulted, exploded, and killed in service to his faith. What exactly, if anything, he knows about the desires and goals of the Island (if they exist at all) is unknown; Locke has never seen fit to detail any communications from the Island. I would argue that Locke's situation is worse than being in thrall to some semi-godlike geographical oddity - Locke is the slave to an idea - his concept of the Island as a place "where miracles happen". Not that serving the Island is much better: It apparently demands human sacrifices, keeps people alive until they do it's will, kills pregnant women and unborn children, and has no problem with the death and pain it's followers commit in it's name. In case you haven't guessed, I seriously doubt that the Island is worth serving, or that the Others are "the good guys".

---

Recaps and Articles

• Lost: SISTE VIATOR, By J. Wood
• 'Lost' Dueling Analyses: Jughead, by Celebritology
• Dropping H Bombs, by Fishbiscuitland
• Lost 5.03: Beyond Belief, by Luhks

• Episode 3 of season 5 is entitled ''Jughead.'' Wikipedia tells us that the word ''Jughead'' can refer to many things. Jughead can refer to a search engine. So maybe ''Jughead'' means that the Island is zipping through the world wide web of time looking for something. (Free amateur porn, probably. Naughty Island!) Jughead also can refer to a progressive rock band founded by Ty Tabor, also the lead singer of the Christian prog-rock band King's X, whose first album, Out of the Silent Planet, was named after a science fiction book by Lost-linked author, C.S. Lewis. And Jughead can refer to the Canadian name for the Kool-Aid mascot, that half-man, half-pitcher creature that smashes through walls and growls ''Oh yeaah!'' Kinda like Smokey.

  Of course, Jughead also refers to the Archie Comics character of the same name. Curious fellow, this Jughead. For quite a while, nobody knew his real first name. Kept it a secret. Ironically, in tonight's episode, you will meet two characters whose first names are deliberately withheld from us until late in the hour. One made me gasp; the other made me get all misty. Jughead also wore a sweatshirt with the letter ''S'' on the front, and I'm told that for many years, the comics kept the significance of this conspicuous detail as secret. I'm really no Archie fan, so I can't tell you what the 'S' stands for... but I'm going take a stab and say it's not Smokey.

  'Lost': What's In a Name? Maybe...Clues? , by Jeff Jensen (EW)
• 'Lost': Doc Jensen's 'Jughead' take, by Jeff Jensen (EW)
• 'Lost' Recap: Time After Time, by Adam B. Vary (EW)
• Lost's Nuclear Bomb Tech Decoded: Season 5, "Jughead", by Popular Mechanics
• Thoughts on Jughead, by Eye M Sick
• Things I Noticed - "Jughead", by Vozzek69
• Never Mind The Paradox, by MangoBingo
• Looking at the Little Things, by SonyaLynn (DocArzt.com)
• Probatur Vegrandis Res (Looking at the Little Things, "Jughead" addendum!), by SonyaLynn(DocArzt.com)
• Lost Recap 5x03: Jughead, by The Ack Attack
• J. Wood's Otherville Book Club - 5.03 "Jughead", by J. Wood
• Lost: Girlfriend in a Coma, by Tubular
• Course Correcting Time Flashes, by Lost in Thought..in Alabama
• S5Ep3 - Jughead, by Long Live Locke
• Talking LOST - 5x03 Jughead, by Sledgeweb and Astro

Very Old and Very Strange